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Historic Pres Comm Minutes 2009-09-15
City of Gardiner
Historic Preservation Commission

6 Church Street                                                 Phone:  207 582-6892
Gardiner, Maine 04345                                           Fax:       207 582-6895

Regular Meeting
Tuesday, September 15, 2009 @ 6:00pm
City Hall, Council Chambers

Present:                Clarence McKay, Chair   Geri Robbins-Doyle      Kirk Mohney                     Jean Parkin-Clunie              Paula Murphy            Hal Norvell                             
Absent:         Gail Ham        

Also Present:   David Cichowski, Code Enforcement Officer
Dorothy Morang – Recording Secretary

                        Barry Moody, Representing Renbro
                        Matthew Murphy

  • Call Meeting to Order
Chair McKay called the meeting to order at 6:03pm

  • Roll Call
  • Approval of August 18, 2009 Meeting Minutes
Kirk Mohney made a motion to approve the minutes. Jean Parkin-Clunie seconded the motion.  
Vote:  5 in favor. 0 opposed. 1 abstained (Clarence was not at the meeting) Motion passed.

4.)     Continuation: Consideration of a Certificate of Appropriateness Application from Aspire Corporation, Applicant
        Proposal: to remove and cap two chimneys that are coming down, creating a hazard.         
Location:  218 Water St, City Tax Map 34, Lot 102, Central Business/Historic Zoning District
Land Use Ordinance Reference: Section 9, Article F

Paul McGuire, the Applicant was unable to attend due to an illness in his family and will reschedule.  
5.)     Consideration of a Certificate of Appropriateness Application from Renbro, Al Jasinski, Applicant
        Proposal:  To remove existing aluminum and glass swing door and install a new aluminum and glass sliding door with an interior vestibule and sliding door
Location:  169 Water St, City Tax Map 37, Lot 164, Central Business/Historic Zoning District
Land Use Ordinance Reference: Section 9, Article F

Barry Moody introduced himself and said that he was representing Renbro as Al Janinski was on vacation.

Kirk Mohney expressed concern about the proposal for the outer set of doors.  He said that the inner doors and vestibule would not require this Committee’s approval.  Kirk noted that the building is a 20th century building that was rebuilt after a fire.  The entrance reflects a traditional entrance with side lights and windows.  His concern about the proposal is that the entry system and door scale is very different than any other on Water St.  It is more like one you would see in a strip mall rather than in a traditional downtown.

Barry said that the interior vestibule will help with heat loss and be more comfortable for the employees.  It would look pretty much as it does today with the center division.

Kirk noted that the proportion and scale are very different than a more traditional door with side lights and asked if it were possible to have the doors swing out rather than slide.  Barry said it is feasible, but they are not as good or reliable and are a high maintenance door.

Kirk referred to Standard 2 in the Secretary of the Interior’s Standards for Rehabilitation and said that even though the existing door is a modern door, it still retains the traditional look of door fronts in the downtown.  The scale and proportion of the one proposed presents change.

Hal asked if the aluminum frame and trim could be in color.  Barry said he was not sure.

Dave noted that the proposal addresses ADA accessibility issues and temperature control.  He said that he has two suggestions.  The first would be make the 2 sliding doors the same size as the existing doors and leave the side light panels or, secondly, if the outside doors were constructed so even though they moved, when shut the side light would be there as part of the door.  He also noted that any aluminum products can be finished in color.  Hal noted that the exterior doors have an effect on the interior doors.  A door that opens out is far less functional for ADA and heat purposes.  He suggested that maybe they can construct a set of sliding doors, as Dave mentioned, that includes panels that look like side lights.  He said he would have no problem with that.

Kirk asked Barry if the manufacturer could come up with options to construct a slider that comes close to matching the existing design.  Barry said they might be able to.

Kirk Mohney made a motion to table the Application and ask the Applicant to research options along the lines of what has been discussed tonight.  Geri Robbins-Doyle seconded the motion.
Vote: 6 in favor. 0 opposed. Motion passed.

6.)     Consideration of a Certificate of Appropriateness Application from Matthew Murphy, Applicant
        Proposal: To replace eleven windows with Dura Classic windows – manufactured by Matthew Brothers in Belfast, ME
Location:  232 Water St, City Tax Map 34, Lot 104, Central Business/Historic Zoning District
Land Use Ordinance Reference: Section 9, Article F

Paula Murphy recused herself as she is the owner, along with Matt, of the building in this Application.

Matt Murphy introduced himself and gave an overview of his proposal.  He said that the existing windows were replaced in the late 60’s/early 70’s.  They are 6 over 6 wooden windows and are pretty much gone.  He looked at a number of materials and has chosen a Dura Clad window that is a composite material.  It can be constructed to maintain the historical features of earlier windows and the window would go all the way to the brick exterior.  He has photos and samples of the window for the Commission to look at.  These type windows were recently put on the courthouse in Penobscot County and also on Joyce’s Restaurant in Hallowell. He said that there will be more glass space.  It will go out to about 1 ½ inches where the existing is about 3 inches. He said they will be using the existing stops.  Kirk asked if the grills are applied or within the glass.  Matt said the grills are within the glass.  Kirk asked if the company offers an option for applied grills.  Matt said they do.  Kirk asked what the profile of the existing window was and was it a fairly narrow muntin.  Matt said about 5/8 inch.  Kirk asked if there were other options for the brick molding. Matt said that the company has a wider casing available.  He said the brick molding is what was used in the current windows. Kirk asked if the brick molding is PVC.  Matt said it is a solid composite material that allows the window and trim to maintain historical architectural features because of the molding process while still being energy efficient and having durability.  Kirk asked if the line is plastic.  Matt said composite.  Matt said it is a step configuration where the molding connects to the brick.  Kirk said that he is concerned about the applied interior and exterior muntins - size and profile – the pictures seem to show pretty wide muntins in relation to the ones that are there now.  Matt said that the sales representative tried to provide a window that maintains the architectural features of the building time period. Matt asked if they went to a 2 over 2 configuration could they use the 5/8 inch muntin?  Kirk asked Matt to ask the manufacturer if they have options in the width.  Paula said that they could measure the existing windows to get the width and profile. Matt said he needs to get this accomplished before winter because of the condition of the windows.  He asked if he used a single 1 over 1 without muntins would it satisfy the Commission.  He noted that he will be putting on exterior screens.  Kirk said we don’t know what the original windows had.  Matt said that he walked down the street and all of the buildings have different types of windows and wondered if there is a record on these.  Kirk said some relate to the history of the building and some to the replacement time.  When the buildings were rehabilitated from the 60’s to the 80’s, there was an effort made to establish a pattern of configuration of the original windows.  Kirk said he would not support a 1 over 1 configuration without documentation.  Matt asked if he got some other options, could the CEO look at them before the meeting to ensure they are ok and is there a standard for grillwork size and profile available.  Kirk said that Matt should go back to the manufacturer and ask for options for applied muntins and then come back to the Commission.  Geri asked if the Murphys take a measurement of the existing muntins, and they ask the manufacturer to duplicate it, would that be acceptable.

Dave asked Matt what the time frame was for ordering and installation.  Matt said it would take 5 – 6 weeks once the order were placed - depending on whether they go with white or color and an extra 2 – 3 weeks for installation.  They would like to use a brown or dark color.

Geri asked if the Murphys get the additional information, can the Commission meet before next month.  Chair McKay said they have met early in the mornings before.  Matt said he will get the width of the existing window muntins and will let the CEO know.

Geri Robbins-Doyle made a motion to ask the Applicant to try to get, as soon as possible, the muntin measurement and get the information from the company and get it to Clarence and Dave and schedule a meeting.  Jean Parkin-Clunie seconded the motion.
Vote:  5 in favor. 0 opposed. Motion passed.  

7.)     Adjourn
Chair McKay adjourned the meeting.  
The meeting adjourned at 7:23 PM

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